emonome

 

Joe Drinker is the pseudonym of graphic designer ???? Joe %&#@!{} I’ve been a fan of his blog, FourBux, ever since I’d stumbled into it almost a year ago. His writing is packed with a brand of humor I like. His cartoons? I blame him for the sudden burst of laughter he got out of me because of that very first strip. He keeps coming back with more which is, frankly, not helping me get rid of the happy-induced wrinkles around my eyes.

So…who is Joe? You may know 50 things about him, but you won’t know his name. I can tell you that he lives in Arizona, and…yeah…that’s all. It doesn’t matter. It matters that he agreed to do this interview and share his thoughts on the many things he is involved in and with; and share more than he has in his blog.

I don’t know of any other person who’d get my ‘typefaces as famous characters’ question and answer it the way he has. My interviews are usually an excuse for me to pick the brains of folks I admire who look at their profession and life from a slightly different camera angle.

Mr. Drinker is a member of that club. And if you’re especially a graphic designer/writer, you won’t want to miss this.

 

E: What influences can you name from your childhood? What were you reading, watching, or listening to?

J: We had a fairly strict set of rules about what we could watch/listen to/read as we grew up. We only watched TV on Thursday nights, because it was “Must-See TV.” To be honest, I only remember that the Cosby Show was on the docket that night, but I think that’s also when Law & Order came out. My mom worked in the courts, so she drank that show up. To this day I still watch it religiously.

As for literary influence, I was an avid reader when I was little, and read everything from the cereal box and junk mail. Eventually I graduated to real, actual books. Not content to have me come home alone after school, my mom let me go to the library until she was done with work. I used to pride myself on being able to read an entire Hardy Boys book in an afternoon…not bad for an elementary school kid. There were a ton of them, and after I blew through those I tried to read the Nancy Drew series, but I just couldn’t do it.

If we’re talking about comic influence though, I’d have to say it was a two-fold answer. First, Garfield. Jim Davis’ was a huge influence on me, if for no other reason than the sheer volume of work. Watching the metamorphosis of Garfield (and Jon and Odie) from the beginning really gave me not only an appreciation for the art of the comic strip, but also for how much can be accomplished in a single strip, sometimes in a single frame. Secondly, reading Calvin & Hobbes was like looking at a comic strip of my life. I didn’t have Calvin’s imaginary friend, but I had his overactive imagination. I obsessed over Dinosaurs. I loved drawing jets. A sandbox and some Matchbox cars would keep me entertained for hours. Once I began to read C&H, almost every strip hit home. I own just about every book.

Music was a completely different story. I never listened to music growing up, but it was normal. In high school, I got into 50’s music for a while, again, because it was so far from the elevator music that was played in our home if there was any music at all. I felt like a deaf person finally able to hear.

Is that a drum I hear?

 

E: What do you remember about your first creative work? What was it and how did you feel about it then and how do you now, looking back?

J: The first time I remember writing for an audience was in an English class in the fourth or fifth grade. We had to come up with a fictional piece, it had to be a certain number of pages long and I was coming down to the wire, and had zero ideas. I was looking out the window, probably daydreaming, and noticed a card my teacher had lying open on the windowsill. On the cover was a mouse, sitting under a Christmas tree, and something triggered. I ended up writing a huge story about this mouse and how it might experience Christmas. That story ended up being published in the town’s paper.

It sounds like a bigger deal than it was, but to me then, it was huge.

All I really remember about the process was that once I had the inspiration, and started that flow, the words just poured out of me. It was almost like the story was already there, just waiting for me to figure it out. That rarely happens any more, but when it happens, it’s addicting.

 

E: That experience didn’t make you want to pursue fiction writing? Do you still write stories?

J: I was really young then, and honestly was still under the impression that I wanted to grow up to be an artist. The idea of being a writer never even entered my mind. I don’t write stories anymore, and the process that writers go through is daunting. There’s a difference between being funny or smart or witty and being able to put it together into a polished piece. There’s so much good content out there as it is that I can barely keep up with the authors I have time to read, much less feeling like I have anything new to add to the mix.

 

E: How did you get into design work? What is it about designing that defines who you are better or makes you express yourself better?

J: I’ve drawn for as long as I can remember. My mom was always very encouraging when it came to art. She had an associate’s degree, dad was a blue-collar guy, and they thought that if I grew up to be a famous artist it would change the family forever. I always wanted to be an artist when I grew up, but I figured out early on that it’s a tough gig if you want to make money before you’re dead.

Getting into the design field was the natural progression of my love of art. One, because I can make a nickel at it, but also because it held a huge mystique. My grandfather was an ad man, back in the sixties in Detriot. My mom idolized her dad, everything from his smoking to his martini lunches and big convertibles. He was a horrible family man, but he was the definitive cool.

He died the summer before I was born.

As for helping me define myself, sheesh. If I knew how to define myself, I’m betting I wouldn’t be in design at all. Sadly, I’m not one of those off-the-wall crazy creative types, although I respect them. By comparison, I’m quiet, pretty withdrawn, but I’m also okay with that. I have people tell me all the time that they don’t think of me as a designer, and it’s because I don’t fit the stereotype.

I don’t even own a black turtleneck.

There are differing levels of creativity. Look at Einstein – extremely analytical, mathematical, precise, but creative nonetheless. Then, at the other end, Pablo Picasso, who is so creative that he actually sees the world differently than the rest of us. A lot of designers skew that way…more like “arteests” than mathematicians.

I’m much more linear than many of my counterparts. That makes my work more tame to be sure, but probably also more mainstream.

I’m not painting the Sistine Chapel; I’m creating a brochure. There is a difference. The comic strip is the first real free-form thing I’ve done. Something that is truly mine, without the overshadowing pressure to make a buck on it.

 

E: Do you feel that not having the pressure of making money from your strip lets you express more freely? Do you feel your strip won’t remain truly you if it took off and brought you that pressure?

J: What? I was promised a big syndication deal. If that’s going to fall through I have some phone calls to make. Really though, the idea that I can even just do something like this for fun, and that other people enjoy, is great. If there was the added pressure that I had to come up with this stuff for income it may just put me over the edge. That said,however, if it were my sole occupation, I think I could make it work. There are tons of stories about the weird happenings that I can draw from, but right now I just don’t think I have the time. It’s really more time consuming than I thought to produce even a three-panel comic.

 

E: How do you approach a design assignment? What questions do you ask yourself before you start? Do you have an example of one such project that outlines the process? Sketches, corrections, finishing touches, what it has taught you, etc?

J: As much as I like to draw, sadly I don’t get to do much of that any more, in the true sense of the word. We’re on computers all day long, and sometimes starting with pencil and paper is counter-productive, at least to what I do. The exception is if I’m creating a logo…that is my excuse to doodle. The computer is great for streamlining the process, but it also sanitizes it as well.

Most of what I do is reactive. It’s a visual response to a need, whether that need is to disseminate information, or to build a brand, or to sell something. Rarely is that need defined by my person. I am given a task, and that task is to take this collection of information, put it into a format that meets these business goals, and, if possible, do it under budget.

Every now and then there are moments of brilliance, that epiphany when the perfect idea falls into place, but again, those seem to be rare. Maybe I’m just jaded.

I had one client who exclusively built dentist’s offices. I didn’t even realize that was an industry, so at least I learned something. Any way, they wanted to do a series of postcard mailings, and I had this idea to highlight the similarities between building an office and dentistry: both using drills, fixtures, braces, the whole spiel. As the designer, it wasn’t really my job, but the idea was too good not to pass on.

In the end, the client agreed to only a couple of the concepts, and they were so watered down that I couldn’t even be proud of them.

That’s the other end of this industry; the client. It doesn’t matter how ingenious a concept is, if the client can’t get their head around it, the idea won’t see the light of day. I think in the end, that’s why my style works out…you don’t have to have an advanced art degree to understand anything I design.

 

E: How do you deal with that frustration when your concept is watered down and your original concept never makes it out there? Is it any different when you’ve worked with clients as a freelancer?

J: It’s frustrating, but I’ve gotten to the point that I’m not willing to fall on my sword for a project. Bottom line is it isn’t my project, and if the client wants something different they’re the one paying the bill. Freelance or the 9-5 gig, it’s all the same. If they don’t use it, I can always tuck it away and maybe tweak it to work with a new project.

 

E: What software, hardware, appliances, and unorthodox methods do you use to work on your design and cartoon projects?
J: The only unorthodox method I use in the comic strip is that I try to draw from real-life experiences. The tools are pretty much the same for what I do during my 9-to-5.

The true reason behind the strip is that for the longest time, I was under the impression that everyone had weird experiences in their day to day lives. I just figured that they weren’t paying close enough attention to appreciate just how humorous the situation was, but as I talked about my day people would just start laughing.

My mother in law has always told me to write a book, but that seemed like it would be difficult, plus the fact that my wedding ring has programmed into me the natural inclination to do the opposite of what she suggests. A blog seemed like the way to go.

The comic appeared almost a year into it, more as an experiment at first. While the timing and dialogue of some of my subjects are easily delivered in a text-based form, others just need to capture the slice of time and people involved.

For example, sure you could read about a guy getting hit in the junk with a golf ball, but isn’t it funnier when it’s on video? Unless it’s you, of course, but that’s another story.

I would like to do the comic more often, but I don’t want to run the risk of it becoming another obligation. At least if it’s sporadic, I can feel like there’s a release to it. It takes a while, too. I think Scott Adams had it right…go for line art and let the dialogue carry it.

 

E: What are some of your favorite typefaces? If each were a famous character - from any field - who would (s)he be?
J: I’m a sucker for the classics: Helvetica would be my number one. It’s nice that it’s coming back into popularity again. Thank you again for the tip on the “Helvetica” movie. My wife almost made it through the opening credits, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. Otherwise, I’m all about the clean lines: Optima is one, Myriad is another. Palatino is where I go for an aproachable serifed face.

 

If they were famous characters, who would they be? Crap. Wish I’d read the second part of the question before I came up with the list.

Helvetica: I’d pick Abraham Lincoln for this one. The font is straight and honest, it looks great in black, and is taller than many of the others.

Optima: Something about the delicate lines and the blend of serif and sans serif look. Very elegant…maybe like Princess Diana? She’s the last person I can come up with who embodied elegance.

Myriad: Something about this font strikes me as comic, with a serious twist. Dave Letterman, perhaps?

Who could Palatino be? I have thought and thought about it. I can’t come up with anyone. Coffee must be wearing off.

 

 

E: Business aspect of design work is almost never talked about. What have you learned from your own free-lance work?

J: Running a business is hard, at least for me. I’ve often said the business of running the business takes the fun out of it. It probably isn’t talked about much because it’s the ugly part of entrepreneurship. Billing, pricing, following up on delinquent clients, taxes, it all adds up. And typically, creative-type people aren’t the best ones to be managing the books.

Numbers don’t lie, regardless of what font they may be in.

That said, there’s also adrenaline rush from doing something you enjoy and owning it. Making a living at it is gravy. Many of my designer cohorts farm out the bookkeeping, but I’ve found that doing it myself it keeps me involved with every step of a client’s project.

That, and I’m cheap. Good accountants are expensive! I send out the taxes, but the rest of it stays in my office. Thanks Quickbooks Pro!

 

E: Name 2 people whose work have made you approach your own differently. They can’t be designers, cartoonists, or writers.

J: I have a friend in town who also owns his own business. He’s a printer, and while some people think that the world of print is being pushed to extinction by the internet, it isn’t happening yet. What it has done is created whole new technologies and methods to work faster, cheaper, and smarter. Now, while not all of what he learns applies to the world of graphic design, truths can be extrapolated from his hard-learned lessons. Even though he is frantic all the time from being busy with work, family and his own life, he is always looking for the next new trend, trying to figure out which way the industry will go. He is constantly learning, whether it’s a new software program or a business model, his mind never shuts down.

I realize how unorthodox this answer is going to seem, but I have to say Bob Newhart. Something about his dry sense of humor, his timing and delivery. I didn’t realize until later, but I would have to say that whether consciously or subconsciously, he made an impression on me. I can’t put my finger on it specifically, but I find myself thinking “what would Bob do?” I may have bracelets made up.

 

E. Tip time. 3 tips each on the following: a) Corporate web design b) Personal Blog design c) Print ad design.

J: Whew. This could be a big one.

a) Corporate web design tips

#1: Test everything. You may think you know what your users want, or how they think, but user testing always uncovers some new piece of information. Like this one: we just assumed that everyone knew it was standard practice for the site’s logo to be a quick link back to the home page. Not so. In our tests, almost nobody knew about it, or even thought to try it.

#2: Decisions will be made that have no basis in reality. Pick your battles and design for the usability of the greater audience. Here, our GM hates the color purple (I’m sure he was fine with the movie). Nothing, in print or web, will ever have purple in it. Thank God our logo isn’t purple.

#3:Take the time to research. There are a ton of resources out there that can point you in the right direction. Forrester reports, trade magazines, usability studies, any knowledge you can absorb will make you a better designer. In the end though, it may not be your call. See tip #2 above.

 

b)Personal Blog Design
#1: Some of the same rules apply here. Anymore, people are totally plugged into the web. If the sites they go to for work or news have a style they like, if your personal site has terrific content but a lousy design, chances are they won’t stick around to read it. It may be worth it to ask friends/readers what they think of your site. External feedback is invaluable.

#2: I don’t know of and major blog platforms out there that don’t have one, but make sure your site has an RSS feed. Some of my favorite blogs are ones that I may only actually visit once a month. The rest of my reading is in my RSS reader. This will also facilitate reading on mobile devices…another thing you want to allow for.

#3: I think that developing a brand for your blog goes a long way towards gaining readers. I’m not saying mine’s perfect, but I have made the effort to develop a consistent look and feel. People may also want to consider developing a logo. This seems to be a fairly debatable topic, especially in design circles. I like having one, as it gives me a base for the brand, but lots of good blogs don’t have one.

 

c) Print Ad design
There are so many more qualified people/sources to look to for this one. No ads I’ve ever done has ever won an award, or at least not that I know of. Look to creative sources for inspiration. Publications like Communications Arts are a gold mine when it comes to inspiring me. Advertising is one of those fields that are so ingrained in our minds that almost anyone can know what makes a good ad. They probably couldn’t verbalize it, but what they do know is “I like this, I don’t like this.”

My boss likes to toss around the “rule of thirds” too, but if questioned, I bet they’d be hard pressed to really explain why it works.

 

E: How do you know which story you want to tell is better suited as a cartoon than a written post? Let’s say you’ve decided it would be better as a cartoon - what’s the process like? I’ve also noticed you keep polishing minor details even after you’ve published a strip.

J: I touched on that a little bit earlier. There are just some things that work well in text, but others require a facial expression, or a pause, or a scene to really get the point across.

On some levels, I think there’s also some relief in the knowledge that there are three, maybe four boxes, and that’s it. Everything that needs to happen to get the reader from point A to point B has to happen in that brief section of time. I also think of it as a service to the reader, too. It’s much easier to read a quick comic and get on with the day, than to read three pages of details about it. The drawback is that it takes me longer to produce.

Again, probably because of the abbreviated space, I do continue to massage the panels a bit after I post it. I’ll come back to it, re-read it, make sure the spacing in the text is fine, or fix something in the picture that may have gotten left out or hidden in the frame. I do the same thing in a text post too, but the changes are harder to spot. In a comic format the changes happen right in front of you.

For what it’s worth, I’ve entertained the idea of doing a flash-based cartoon, but that is just too big a project to tackle. As it is I’m lucky to get out one comic a week, and a flash version would be once a month if I were lucky. I’m no Chuck Jones.

 

E: How did FourBux start? What would you have missed out on if you hadn’t made up your mind and said to yourself, “That’s it, I’m starting a blog”?

J: It was a combination of reasons, really. There was a slight desire to put my story out there and see if people really did find these experiences entertaining, or if everyone had them, as I suspected. The other part was that honestly, I was going through a rough patch in my personal life, and really just needed someone to talk to, about anything. Ironically, I’ve never been the type of person to keep a journal. I don’t want to write things on paper and hide them in a notebook, but I’ll vent in front of the watching world. Go figure.

I put my first post out there on March 15, 2007. The equivalent of a “hello, world” post, and I figured if nobody read it, that’s fine. At least I’m doing something creative as a hobby/therapy.

It was began anonymously, more because I always wanted the option of really spilling my guts if I felt like it. That, and that most of the fodder for these asinine stories comes from my day job, and I didn’t want to offend my way into the unemployment office. In fact, it was only in February that I told my wife about it, and that was under duress. The blog is still pseudo-anonymous, but if someone really wanted to figure it out it wouldn’t be difficult. I just would rather not have my name come up on a Google search with the abstract “runs a web site dedicated to making fun of his job at X company.”

I think what I would have really missed out on is really great people. I’ve gotten to know cigar critics, Texas housewives, New York film producers, European web programmers, you name it. There’s no way our paths would have crossed if it weren’t for the blog. On some levels, I think that’s why I still make the effort.

 

E: Advise a young designer-to-be about the corporate world and the things school never prepares someone for.

J: One of the things that school can’t prepare you for is that regardless of how good a designer you are, no matter how good of an eye you have, no matter how much talent oozes from your finger tips, the fact is that you won’t be designing in a vacuum. It’s all about the client. What they need, what they want, what they think they want. There are opportunities to educate the client, inform them as to why a decision was made and why, in your trained and professional opinion, it is the right direction to go, but at the end of the day it comes down to what the client wants.

Being humble goes a long way. Being teachable does too. If you’re the best designer in the world, but by being a cocky jerk you alienate all your clients, does it make any difference how good you are?

There was a designer in my city who designed the logo for a major mall in the area. This mall was basically a landmark, one of a few places that everyone in the city could identify. It was a great project, and he got paid an insane amount of money. That money, along with the pseudo-fame that went with it, went straight to his head. Suddenly his prices were through the roof, and he had priced himself right out of the market. Last I heard he wasn’t even designing anymore.

 

E: Can you recommend a couple of books every design student should read or magazines they should read regularly?

J: Books are a tough call, as the industry tends to change pretty quickly. If design students are getting into the web world specifically, there are great resources on style sheet-based design, and new technologies developed every day. I hit up csszengarden.com fairly regularly, as well as http://veerle.duoh.com.Magazines are a little better to keep current. I read Communication Arts, Dynamic Graphics, but even non-trade magazines are helpful for a creative jump start. The designs in the trade mags are geared for a specific crowd, but the masses may not appreciate it. If you can spot good design at work in mainstream publications it helps get the juices flowing in your own work as well as ground your designs.

 

E: What are five of your all-time favorite posts from FourBux?

J: Comics, or all types of posts?

a) If we’re talking comics, I’d go with these:

• Should’ve Just Had Water.
• The restroom maintenance, because it’s sad but true.
• Sick time.
• Quota exceeded
• And the original, which was a real meeting I had at work. It just needed to be put into a comic.

b) If other posts were included, I’d have to add:

• The one where I wrote about how buying a new watch caused me to miss my flight.
• And the one where the pretend British guy came up and gave me bits of wisdom at a bus stop.

Both events were surreal and made for great stories. Plus, they’re too complex for a comic strip.

 

E: I want to end this with a, for lack of a better term, ‘requestion.’ Your main character from your current strip meets the first character you’d created (even it’s from your childhood). What would that story be?
J: Hmm, I’d have to chew on it. Honestly, the older character thing would be a stretch, if only because I really never came up with others. That is, until that Mojizu site. I’m so grounded in my day to day life that coming up with fictional characters is tough for me. One that I do want to explore though is the Starbucks Siren character, and perhaps have her be a recurring character in the thread. It would make sense to have her continually popping in and out, as well as she could be the voice of the coffee shop, maybe poking fun at the marketing or something. I haven’t gotten it completely worked out in my mind yet, but I am trying to figure out what it will look like.

 

Joe was born in Phoenix, Arizona, in 1974, and is one of only three Phoenix-born locals still living here today. He played golf in high school before Tiger made it cool, and drank coffee before it was trendy. He graduated from Grand Canyon University with a degree in Graphic Design, but only after he discovered a double major in Communications and Sociology wouldn’t be the cash cow he’d hoped for. He currently works as a web graphic designer for a mega-corp based in Phoenix. He and his wife just bought a home and are waiting for the first 100-degree day to move in.

www.fourbux.com

I’d posted my initial, raw, response about The Sopranos finale last year (did a 360 the following day). Quite a few people came to the blog for the first time because of that post. One of them, Laurie Kendrick. I went over to her blog and was bowled over. How can someone be that funny and keep it fresh day after day? We became friends - have yet to meet - and have exchanged many emails and some phone calls; “Hey, E!” from LK, if I were depressed, always got me out of it. She has a way with words that tickles the right parts of my brain. I remember I couldn’t stop laughing for 5 minutes when I’d read a line from one of her posts about her childhood that said something like: “I took a picture of daddy’s friend…” followed by a picture of a pair of man-legs with his pants around his ankles. I’ve always asked myself if LK is many people with one name. How does she get to write so much and still write for several other mediums as a freelancer?

The answer to the last question of this interview will tell you how her mind works at prompt. She’d answered it at first, but only saying what type of post she’d write. I emailed her back at 12:02 pm on April 9th: “…for #15 I was hoping for a spontaneous piece from you…” She replied at 12:13pm: “Sorry, I didn’t understand what you wanted there…” The answer you’ll find below was in my inbox at 12:59pm.

Behold the one and only…LK!

E: What are some of your first memories as a young writer? Do you remember what you wrote first?

LK: I wrote odd little poems for my parents as a child. At age seven I thought I was Longfellow: I was laying down clever iambic pentameter left and right. Then a few years later, as my hormones surged, I discovered two things that would alter my life FOREVER: boys and journaling. I was love sick for my seventh and eight grade years and my journals helped me keep it together. ”

“Keep it together”???? Really, what did that entail at age 12 or 13? My world was coming to an end because I had a zit or I didn’t make the cheerleading squad? Probably, but I remember it hurting a great deal. That said, pain and angst are relative.

Writing in my journal helped me sort things out. I gained perspective and acuity.

I’d spill my nubile guts on anything I could find…pieces of paper, old receipts, book covers, paper bags…whatever. I kept all my secrets in the zippered compartment of a bean bag chair. I’m not sure what happened to that old lump of vinyl and Styrofoam pellets. I believe my mother sold it at a garage sale and yes, my random pieces of journal went with it. Someone now knows about the lengths I went to to keep my mom from seeing the hickey that Mark Martin gave me in the Spring of ‘73.

E: Who are some of your early influences? What were you watching, listening to, and reading? Can you give examples of how something has inspired you in a certain way?

LK: I was immediately struck by the flow of Flannery O’Connor. Her voice was great and her style, just slightly flippant. There was a realness to her writing.

I then discovered Fran Lebowitz in college and knew I found my literary idol. If she walked in here right now, I’d genuflect and kiss her damn keyboard. No one…NO ONE writes like Franny, though God knows I’ve tried. She’s incredibly smart and pithy and all of it is tinged with this strange timidity. It’s not blatant; she doesn’t write with an issue fueled pen. She just writers. It’s hard, one would imagine, for the discerning reader NOT to love her bombast.

I know I do.

E: Why do you think Lebowitz’s writing resonated with you?

LK: She’s brilliant; the consummate smart-ass and a class writer. I first read her while still in college; the first few pages and I was hooked. She’s phenomenal. I loved her voice because it so closely resembled the one I hope to have someday. I could never be in her league, but I sure as hell aspire to be one day.

E: How was high school and college life? In a perfect world, those two places nurture talent and encourage originality. How do you remember your own experience?

LK: I loved Jr. High, hated high school and only parts of college were memorable. My parents’ divorce was finalized well into my Freshman year of college, but it had been a very turbulent number of years prior to the actual dissolution of their marriage. It was extremely difficult and emotional and far more so than I’m allowing here. Suffice it to say that emotionally, it damned near killed me.

E: Looking back, what do you think helped you get through that difficult period? Do you think you have an objective take on their relationship?

LK: I’ve always had the damnedest optimism, even in my darkest periods…and there have been many. I always knew intrinsically that old adage, “this too shall pass” and it always did. If I had one complaint, it was the bad times never passed fast enough.

E: What brought you to broadcasting? What has working in television and radio taught you about writing?

LK: I’m actually a very determined person. I was also a very determined child. I remember being emphatically sure about what I wanted to do when I grew up. I wanted to be a writer. That got sidetracked as I got a little older and was shot by a San Antonio camera crew when my great grandmother turned 100. I remember watching myself on the screen later than night. I was mesmerized. At that moment, history was made: a future TV news anchor was born and so was a tiny, eight year old narcissist.

E: Do you remember what you said when the TV crew shot you?

LK: I was just eight years old. It wasn’t an interview-I said nothing and just a brief shot of me. But it was enough to make me want to be on TV one day. And everybody in my very dysfunctional family ooh’d and ah’d over it. You see, my sisters and I were always praised for what we did; never for what we were.

Decades later, I’d just finished anchoring a newscast and had gone with friends to a restaurant for a late dinner. Once inside, I was barraged by viewers clamoring for my autograph. MY AUTOGRAPH??? It was an existential moment. Then in a flash, I remembered how it felt when that camera crew basically panned the room and caught me on film. Suddenly, I realized that a life long dream came true. I’d been on the air for a year, but I was so myopic in the pursuit of my career that I hadn’t stopped to remember what it really was that brought me to that point. In theory, it was hard work, long hours and a college degree, but it was more than that. It was this incessant need to be loved by anonymous minions. In some ways, my blog is still a component of that.

E: When did you realize comedy writing suits your personality better? Who are some of your comedy mentors and what have you learned from each?

LK: I’ve been told I was always “funny”. Precocious, too. My sister Karol and I watched an inordinate amount of TV. Actually, “watching” is incorrect. We studied it; theme songs, the credits…who did what and as a kid growing up in a tiny Karnes City, Texas my lexicon was a bit different than my contemporaries. I not only knew what a “Best Boy” was, but who performed those duties on the set of “Hogan’s Heroes”.

I knew that Botany 500 supplied Gene Rayburn with his suits when he hosted, “The Match Game”. I understood Walter Cronkrite’s familiar cadence. Yeah, I watched network news as a kid. It fascinated me and so did news makers. I was intrigued by politics and politicians. I actually did an impersonation of President Lyndon Baines Johnson. I’d lower my chin, don bi-focals and utter, “My fellow Uh-murr-kins…” My parents thought it was witty and wonderful and often asked me to perform at their parties. I did and to rave reviews, might I add. I loved the sound of laughter. It was invigorating and affected me like scripture. It still does.

E: Sounds like you had the right ingredients for doing stand-up early on. Had you thought of pursuing that?

LK: I’ve done stand up on several occasions, mainly just to see if I could do it. Well, I did. My last time was at the Houston Improv in May of 2006. It was very well received, but I vowed I wouldn’t do it again. That’s one promise I’ll keep. Stand up comedy ain’t easy. It’s tough and I’m far too thin skinned.

E: How do you exercise your comedy writing muscles? How is it different from any other type of writing?

LK: I write in my blog daily…well, up to six days a week and I also write comedy for a living, so that part of my brain never atrophies. But my mood generally determines the tone of everything I write. That might be true of all tortured wordsmiths.

This is probably quite revealing psychologically, but there are days when I’m completely disconnected from comedy and humor. Comedy is tough. Its subjectivity makes it that way.

Don’t believe me?

Spend an afternoon perusing the million so called “humor” blogs out there. There’s an amazing amount of drivel out there. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve written pablum before myself. We all do. Comedy is rarely consistent. We learned that from Saturday Night Live, Andrew Dice Clay and the awful, awful Dane Cook. Someday I hope he’ll grasp what true comedy is. As it stands, he certainly knows what it isn’t.

E: Many would disagree with you about Cook. They’d probably ask you why you think his comedy isn’t.

LK: Personal tastes. I think Dane Cook is a hack. To explain the “success” he’s had, well, I think either his ego, his mom, or his agent is lying to him.

E: What ingredients make funny? They say comedy is truth. What do you think they mean by that? What’s your brand of humor?

LK: Are you referring to the old adage, “Many a truth is said in jest”? I’ll buy that. I’ve written rather serious posts in which I opined (in no uncertain terms) on various things such as politics and social norms, and was lambasted by negative comments. I could write very same thing with a humorous slant and I get a million hits.

And sometimes, I don’t get a single comment. I don’t know why it’s all so hit or miss. Hot one minute, then a comment ghost town the next.

My comedy could be described as ribald, I suppose. I write what I like to read. I wouldn’t call it vulgar or overtly adult oriented, but it has its moments. Every once in a while the phrase “bunch of baloney” just doesn’t have the same literary “ooof” as “what a load of bullshit”. Creative license in my world, almost always needs its mouth washed out with soap.

E: Was it unfair of people to lambaste you with negative comments? Why is a humorous take on your opinions ’safer’ when you share them with your readers? Particularly, your readers.

LK: My blog is a humor blog. Ninety-percent of it is based on comedy, but that leaves ten-percent wide open and yes, I try my hand at other genres from time to time. But people are creatures of habit. Some don’t like it when I deviate from the norm and some negative comments and e-mails have been the by-product. I’ll always go for the funny, but I’m a writer and I definitely try to be a multi-dimensional one.

E: You’d mentioned you needed quite a bit of convincing before you entered blogging. What surprised you most about blogging? How has it changed your writing? How do you manage to be consistent and keep it fresh?

LK: I started my blog on March 31, 2007. I had just been laid off from a comedy-based news/talk station in Houston. The format was flipping to all sports and most of the on air staff was summarily dismissed. It wasn’t a positive experience.

At all.

I left that station a shaken woman. I realized that I’d given 25 years to an industry that didn’t give a shit about me. That was disconcerting to say the least. I had to be pushed in to blogging because at the time, my self confidence sucked. But that was short lived. I regained all my footing. I love writing but blogging has been a life altering and life affirming experience for a myriad of reasons.

E: I can only imagine how tough that was to deal with after 25 years. But surely you wouldn’t have enjoyed writing for a sports station, would you?

LK: Timing is everything and when radio summarily dismissed me, it was time to leave. I just didn’t know it until after the fact. So, when I walked out the door, I literally left Broadcasting behind me. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again–the industry has changed so much. In some ways, so have I. You can’t go home again, so really, in my heart of hearts, I can honestly say that I really have no intention of ever sitting behind a microphone or a studio camera again. At least, not in a host or anchor capacity.

E: What’s a typical work day like for you? How do your blog posts become what they are? What gets you to write about a certain topic? Do you have little rituals or rules for yourself when you write?

LK: I’m inspired by many things. I’ll see something, watch a news report or read an article–see someone or something while shopping and I’ll immediately dissect its CQ: its Comedy Quotient, and I go from there.

Getting started is easy. I sit down and I write. I don’t have any tricks of the trade. I don’t compose an outline first. I write by stream of consciousness. It just flows and rarely do I have an ending in mind once I start writing a post. It just kind of magically appears. I’m lucky that way. I’m also big on endings. I like to end with something meaty.

As for the piece as a while, if it makes me laugh, it’ll make at least the bulk of my readers laugh.

E: What would you advise young writers who:

a) struggle to find a voice:

LK: I found mine in a two-fold process. I’ll risk this sounding like utter braggadocio by telling you that it came when I realiezed I could write. I knew that with my writing, I could make sense of the nonsensical. The second discovery occurred when my teachers lauded me with compliments and when I won several awards in High School and as a professional Journalist. But nothing proves you’ve found you voice knowing that your writing has elicited a response in your readers. I’ve gotten comments on my blog that moved me–not because they were complimentary–but because my post made the reader think or feel something. That to me, is the penultimate compliment.

b) wish to write for broadcast medium

LK: My biggest recommendation here would be to avoid Broadcast altogether, but that’s my bitterness talking. I got into TV and radio 25 years ago. It was a completely different beast back then. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 allowed for deregulation and deregulation has all but killed radio. Technology will hammer in the death nails. And by technology, I mean the advances that have been made in the past 15 years. We now have more options than ever before. Burnable CDs, iPods, music services, satellite, the list reads like a scroll. Purists will always make sure radio remains alive…but not well. The one positive in all of this is that NOTHING will replace our need to read. Only the medium by which we read will change. That gives me hope.

c) wish to write comedy

LK: Comedy is so subjective. But I’m of the mindset that you’re either funny or you’re not. I don’t think the ability to write comedy can be taught. I believe you can learn “theory”, but it’s highly doubtful you’ll garner much of an audience. If my career can be construyed as successful at all ( and that might be debatable to some) it’s because I learned to write for men. I ALWAYS write with men in mind–even my more serious stuff. I use the male sense of humor as my barometer. If you can make a men laugh, you’ll make women laugh. Ironically for me anyway, that rarely works if you reverse it. By writing for men, I’ve learned to kill two literary birds with one stone.

d) face the dreaded writer’s block.

LK: As I said earlier, I often feel major disconnect. I guess that’s a form of writer’s block. When that happens, I shut her down. There’s nothing I hate worse than the tyranny of the blank computer screen. So, when that happens and it does, I get up and walk away. My motivations come from so many places, so usually I’m rarely away from my keyboard more than a day or two. But, I will admit that every time I finish a piece, I wonder if I’ll ever write another one. This might sound weird, but I’ve learned how to operate within that dysfunction. In many ways, my insecurity fuels me. Doubt keeps me coming back. Odd, I know, but it works for me.

E: Why does the male sense of humor also work for female and rarely when it’s reversed? Psychology or biology?

LK: I don’t have an answer for this, other than for me, writing for men, works.

E: What are some of the other projects you’re working on?

LK: I have a book in my head. It’ll be a series of short stories and I’ve even begun dabbling with the concept of play. I also write for several regional magazines and I’m a comedy writer for two Houston radio stations.

E: Have you given yourself a deadline for these projects?

LK: No, I have no time line. I refuse to do that to myself. I won’t contribute to my disappointment if a target dates comes along and I haven’t written a book or a play or won a Pulitzer. The reality is I’m ridiculously optimistic that it will happen. If I envision it, it usually happens. I’ve been lucky…..and driven.

E: You’ve often asked your readers to chime in with their thoughts/take on the opposite sex - I’m one of them. What have you learned about both sexes from those responses?

LK: I’ve learned that there are far more women like me in the world…a broad’s broad… and even after countless quizzes and Q&As, I still haven’t figured out THE PENIS PEOPLE, but I’ll never stop trying.

E: Why are The Penis People so hard to figure out? Are they being asked the right questions? Maybe men are more multiple choice questions and not so much essay questions type.

LK: Nice try, Emon…but uh…NO!! You men are going to have to learn to write and express yourselves. Alan Alda and his band of Mr. Sensitive Pony Tail types don’t speak for you. The crucible that is life consist of options (multiple choice) and communication (expressing of one’s feelings). I’m not going to cut you any slack in future Q&A posts about gender differences.

E: You’re a pretty straight forward person. What 5 things are you dying to tell men and women, each, to stop bullshitting about?

LK:
1. Women must talk less in order to get men to talk more.
2. Say I love you often and for God’s sake, mean it. Insincerity is often fatal.
3. Be sincere and honest. Not to the point where it hurts someone’s feelings but, speak your mind.
4. If you can’t be faithful, then don’t get involved with anyone. If you’re involved and if you think you’re going to stray, terminate the relationship. Infidelity is always fatal.
5. Learn to laugh together. Laughter is the tie that binds.

E: You’ve written about your own relationships. What have you learned about yourself via those relationships? How have they impacted the way you express yourself today?

LK: Heartache has been my biggest motivator. I look forward to the day when it isn’t.

E: How do you mean? What has heartache motivated you to do?

LK: For me, pain is motivation. To write about something that hurts often allows me to connect the dots. I can usually find the source of my pain when that happens and that allows me to ease it. I would like to commission a bevy of noted thinkers in the psychological and behavioral world to discern why creative types have such tortured pasts. Was my past tortured? No, but I knew unhappiness. Heartache, loss, disappointment—you know, life. Some of my misery was my own. I brought it on myself; some of it wasn’t. Sometimes, I didn’t cope with change well. It’s nothing I obsess over, but it’s helped me write on occasion.

For me, pain meant clarity. I think it’s that way for a lot of people. It’s difficult to view the world through rose colored glasses when you’re wincing through tears.

E: (a) Name 5 of your own favorite blog posts.

High School: I Remember When

God Called

I Know How This Day Ends

My Covenent With You

Sounds

The Crisper

Father’s Day

(b) Name 5 writers and/or bloggers you like.

Fran Lebowitz
Eric Spitznagle
Joan Didion
Flannery O’Connor

E: Right this minute, as you’re reading this question, and having answered all those questions above, what do you like to write about? No limits, whatever comes to your mind and however long it is.

LK: I think a lot about my gender.

Women; who we are and just how we’ve evolved in my lifetime alone.

I think there is “a feminine mystique”, but my version varies substantially from Betty Friedan’s. To me, this “mystique” covers many things. It’s our ability to procreate, our ability to love and nurture and how we can emotionally multi-task. I applaud the many roles we have to play and play well.

Yes, I appreciate my womanhood more than I ever have before. And that’s come with age.

As we get older and collagen leaves our skin leaving it far less supple, I think we’re rewarded; compensated perhaps, by being allowed to feel more comfortable in our skin. That’s the trade out. And it’s one thing about aging I really like.

Another thing I’ve learned to appreciate about our gender is our ability to see the subtle nuances that are hidden to everyone else and by everyone else, I mean men.. Women, with very little effort, are able to see what really lies beneath the surface. We might not let on that we know, but trust us….we know.

The one thing I really dislike about our gender how many of us view relationships.
We consistently give undeserving men 769 chances to enter into and remain in our lives.

And we not only embrace them; we cling to them. We become specious lunatics, saying and doing anything to keep them in our midst.

Why?

Why do we women like idiots? Why do we cling to men and situations that guarantee we’ll experience heartache and self doubt? Why do we do this to ourselves?

The problem is the recidivism rate among assholes is through the roof. While it is true that the adage, “once a jerk, always a jerk” doesn’t always hold water, it also rarely leaks.

Do we, as women, intentionally seek the wrong guy with all the right issues because we have this primordial need to nurture and nest, to kiss boo-boos and make everything better? Well, that’s part of it, of course. These things are ingrained…they’re what we do, but are we blinded at times by our own hardwiring?

Furthermore, are nice guys just too emotionally healthy for us???

And after we take their counterparts, these pathetically fractured creatures into our bosoms, do we then become jerks and idiots ourselves through symbiotic osmosis?????

And then do we stay together simply through shared insecurities and mutual inadequacies??

Do issues become the “ties that bind”?

I used to know a woman who dated capriciously. She went from guy to guy–fleeing at the first sign of trouble. I used to think she was flighty and too picky. I even accused her of having commitment issues; that maybe something was emotionally askew.

Turns out, she knew exactly what she was doing. She’s married now and very content with her life.

Here’s why: She knew what she wanted and more importantly, she knew what she didn’t want. She knew what she was looking for in a man, in a partner and in a relationship.

In a conversation once, she made it clear to me–in NO uncertain terms–that if I am choosing to be with a complete idiot, then I’m just as guilty and issue ridden as he is. I was completely on par with his idiocy and that made me half the reason why I was so unhappy.

The conversation continued. Still wading in my shallow pool of denial, I asked her about the human factor–I reminded her that no one was perfect and she agreed….BUT, she said something that made an enormous amount of sense. She admitted that while everyone has problems, the problems she WILL allow into her relationship “would never be big enough to sink the deal”.

Her tolerance has a cap.

Wow! A cap? Limits??

My mind reeled. So, I started thinking—women with issues seek men with issues? Water seeks its own level? I asked my friend about this and she said while that over-simplified things a bit, the answer is YES. By telling me that, she basically held a mirror up to my face and I looked into it long and hard and frankly, I didn’t like the view.

I have since made it my life’s goal to find my tolerance cap.

I’m also learning at the ripe old age of 49 that healthy women–like my friend– don’t have the patience to stay in dead-end relationships. If after trying to make it work and it doesn’t, it’s over. They leave and miracles of miracles, they do so in tact.

Taking crap is a conscious choice.

In a nutshell, we women have to become more intolerant. We need to put up with less and expect more. Mostly from ourselves. I’m at a critical point in my life where I need to discern what I want versus what I need and I need to come to terms with what I’m willing to put up with; which relationship imperfections I’m willing to tolerate and which ones I’m not. Regardless of what I decide..whether I stay or go, I’ll be fine.

And that’s what I wish we women would get through our heads once and for all: we can walk away from a bad situation and we won’t break. We can fall and get right back up again. We don’t have to settle. And we have to learn that self-respect is key to our emotional survival.

So is being realistic.

Love isn’t about fairy tales. There are unhappy endings sometimes. It doesn’t always work out. And it’s not all about sex and shouldn’t be pursued because of what it can do or buy. Love, I think, is the quintessential intangible. It’s the mutuality of emotion and intent and purpose; shared values that yes, even I have to admit, are relevant and the real adhesive in every relationship.

And we have to stop focusing romantic love. There’s so much more to it than that. Yeah, sure it’s lovely and nice and there’s an age old part of our collective psyches which seeks that and always will. But again—we have to be realistic. Romantic love is beautiful and sought after, but extremely confounding. It distorts our view and it’s incredibly porous. It allows annoying little resentments, petty jealousies and smothering to seep through and these are all major contributors to relationship death.

I don’t want that. In fact, I no longer want to make excuses after my feelings have been pulverized for the 19th time that week by saying through my tears, “Well (insert name here) is aloof, cold and emotionally unavailable along with being a selfish, sanctimoniously lying asshole—BUT HE’S MINE!!!!

And so many women sadly, tragically, pathetically feel this way.

Bullshit.

The point I’m trying to make, Ladies is this: if water seeks its own level, then we MUST change our depth charts.

A colleague sent me an article recently which focused on the age old conundrum of good women, bad choices. It included a passage that I thought would be a fitting way to end this tome: Let’s stop wasting time looking for the perfect man. He doesn’t exist. He never has and he never will. Instead, let’s shift our focus. Let’s try creating the perfect love.

Fear not, it exists. It’s a bit elusive, but very real and it’s an emotion that we must create for ourselves first and foremost.

Now those, my Sisters, are words to love by.

————————————-

Well, folks, now you know why I [Heart] LK! I thought I should tell you a little about her professional work because…I want to.

Laurie Kendrick is an award winning writer and reporter based in Houston, TX. In her 24 years of professional experience in television, radio, and print, Kendrick has won, among others, awards from AP and Houston Press Club; The Katy Award for Best Feature; Best Series from Radio and Television Director’s Association; “Best Feature,” Francis C. Moore Award, and numerous others accolades. She is currently working as a freelance writer.

So, folks, America may run on Dunkin’ each morning…but it’s thinking about Laurie Kendrick the whole time.

During my year with Shooting People, I got to meet many filmmakers; we’d have social gatherings once in a while. Most of those “filmmakers” I despised. Very few brought something different and worthwhile to the conversations I like to engage in. Betsy is one of them. She’s a person of many talents who’s funny, has a wide breadth of knowledge beyond films, and an excellent writer. Some of her emails can be printed into book form and sold at mega-stores that matter. I doth not exaggerate.

I’ve wanted to interview her for a long time just so I could pick her brain and share it with you. And here it is.

E: Do you remember your first creative writing work? What was it about and what had inspired you to write?

B:My first creative writing, that I can remember, was a write-up of a third grade science experiment where we were supposed to be raising and studying terrariums full of salamanders. Well, I somehow couldn’t help turning this into a short, pencil-scrawled novella, complete with illustrations, detailing the deep and dramatic life-cycle of the salamander – where, oh where, would it all end?! (Shriveled up, dead, and stuck to the side of the tank, as it turned out. Maybe this is why to this day I tend to like dark endings).

I think that in that particular case, I was inspired by the idea of trying to make a boring assignment interesting. Escaping boredom has actually always been a big motivator for me. In all seriousness, it’s only slightly ever moved one or two steps away from that: I write as a way of exploring something that interests me, of getting inside it and understanding how it works. Crawling around inside the salamander, I guess.

E: What were you reading, listening to, and watching growing up? Who would you say have encouraged your creativity the most: (i) within your family and (ii) outside?

B: As a kid, I read everything. I was into all the sci-fi/magic/fantasy stuff – The Chronicles of Narnia, JRR Tolkien, the Dark is Rising series, A Wrinkle in Time – and I also liked some of that girly, Anne of Green Gables/Judy Blume stuff too. Anything that had a good story and good characters. As I got older I got interested in magical realism by people like Garcia-Marquez, Gloria Naylor and Salman Rushdie, and also just their phenomenal use of language. On TV, well, I watched all the same ridiculous shows that anyone my age did: Zoom, Electric Company, Brady Bunch, Star Trek, Charlie’s Angels. I also loved those Japanese monster movies, particularly the ones with Gamra. And I was into animation. I used to go to all the festivals, saw all the early Pixar and Bill Plympton stuff, etc. A lot of absurd humor there, which I also love.

Both of my parents always encouraged me to be creative, and now we all argue about whose fault it is that I ended up like this instead of going to law school. No, that’s not really true, I am actually fortunate enough have two intelligent and supportive parents who always loved to read or look at whatever I did. At school, I got high marks, but aside from the unusual teacher here and there – Mr. Michaels, 3rd grade art — there wasn’t much encouragement to do something creative or think outside the box there, unfortunately. I’d say I was more lucky to find peers, through high school and college and film school, and now who I work with or in my screenwriting group, who help push me that way, either by collaborating or by giving me helpful feedback, or just by setting a high bar with their own work.

E: The first time you decided to become a filmmaker: Do you remember what you wanted to make?

BN: Well, I was really a Spielberg kid. I came of age in the Star Wars/Close Encounters/Indiana Jones era, so my dreams were blockbuster central for a long time. And I still think that those are fantastic films. But you just can’t make Raiders of the Lost Ark with a cast of 50 stuffed animals, or claymation. Although I tried. That’s kind of what my first animated films were like.

When I started to get serious about becoming a filmmaker as a young adult, I wanted to be a cross between Jane Campion and Spike Lee. I still basically do, with some Errol Morris and maybe the Coen Brothers thrown in. If you can picture that. Oh, and Lucrecia Martel, she rocks.

E: What series of events led you to your first film work? What do you remember of that experience?

B:Well, in terms of film work, as I mentioned, I started making animated films as a kid. A friend of mine had a super-8 camera and was playing with it, then I got one of my own and proceeded to go crazy. I made films or took photographs through college at Stanford, and then got the bizarre idea to go to grad school in film, where I made a bunch of shorts that I’m not terribly proud of, even though a couple went to festivals.

Then there’s film work – aka professional work. When I was in my third year of graduate film school at NYU in 1993, I’d shot my thesis film and started editing it and it was becoming extremely apparent to me that I had not made the next La Jetée, or even Ramblin’. In other words, I wasn’t going to fly out of NYU with three agents, Sherry Lansing and a bevy of development executives begging me to come to Hollywood. So, I was looking for a way to get some experience working in the film business, not to mention earn enough to eat and pay rent. And my roommate, who I’d known since junior high, had started working in production as well, as an electrician.

So I said, “Hey, I’ve set a couple of lights, I can be an electrician!” and promptly persuaded her to get me hired to work with her as swing on a film called Sleepover. I was working for DP Joaquin Baca-Asay and gaffer Joe Zizzo, both of whom have gone on to do big things, and they were nice enough to put up with my ignorance and teach me that anything having to do with lighting or grip that I had learned in film school was utterly wrong. Of course, since I was working on deferment, they couldn’t do much better than me anyway! (Although, in a strange twist, we did all actually end up getting paid on that job, which, as you know if you work in the film world, is almost unheard of). And I also learned that film production often takes place at night, in the cold, in the rain, and that rubber pants are not as crazy an idea as you might think.

E: You’ve done - and continue to do - a lot of sound recording work for film and television. Can you name some of those projects and why do they stand out in your memory?

B: My first sound recording job was on a gay sex comedy called Lie Down With Dogs, one of the first gay films to be made and released for a wide audience. That was a fun film – no money, but we did get to spend two weeks in Provincetown, and it was a fun group of people. The director basically mortgaged his life on credit cards to get it made and then it got picked up by Miramax – and so, yet another complete anomaly, we all got paid on that one too. Plus, the producers were so happy the work that I did with truly bottom-of-the-barrel equipment that they put my name in the head credits. In fact, it’s the first name you see on the film! Interesting postscript: years later, when I was working on a movie where we were shooting nights at the Limelight, a tape of Lie Down With Dogs turned up in a sex booth.

The first film I worked on that ever became a hit was Daytrippers, on which I worked as a boom operator. That project was memorable for the fact that pretty much every non-union crew person in New York at the time worked on it for a day or two, and so I met a ton of folks with whom I’ve continued to work throughout the years (including a good friend who is now my co-producer). Another thing I remember distinctly about Daytrippers was showing up on set not knowing anything about the project, only that it was yet another crazy deferred job, and trying to pay attention to two actors doing a blocking rehearsal. And then they went off to hair and make-up and came back, and they were Campbell Scott and Hope Davis. That was when I knew I was on to something with this film work.

I’ve also worked, for from a day to several weeks, on Walking and Talking, The Sopranos, Law & Order, Sex & the City, and Before Night Falls, which are mainly memorable because people have heard of them, and because I got to flirt with Johnny Depp.

E: What does a sound recordist do? What is a typical day like for you? Who are your primary collaborators on set?

B: The sound recordist (or location sound mixer)’s job is basically to record dialogue in a way that makes it most useful to the editor – aka, so it is clear and clean of outside noise, and so that it more or less matches what you see on screen. Movies, commercials and episodic television are all different, so I’d say there is no typical day, but in general: we show up; we eat breakfast burritos; we set up the equipment; we listen for any annoying sounds that are going to make us miserable and try to track them down and turn them off/cover them with a heavy blanket/beg the production to pay somebody to stop leaf-blowing/playing merengue at high volume; we watch the blocking of the scene and strategize the best way to mic it; we mic people or plant mics if we have to; we shoot/boom/mix the scene, usually a gazillion times, and try to get the best sound we can; and then we move on to the next scene and do it over and over and over again for an average of 10 to 16 hours.

Most feature and TV sound departments have three people who work together: a sound mixer, a boom op and a third or utility person, who helps organize the 20-odd cases of of equipment we bring to set, and often mics people or acts as second boom. On commercials there is only a mixer and a boom, and on a doc there’s only one poor, lonely sound person who has to do it all. But of course we also have to collaborate with the rest of the crew: we need to stay in touch with the ADs to know what’s going on and what we have to do next; we work with the DP, gaffer and grips to deal with framing and lighting issues that affect where the mic can be; and of course we have to work with the producer, actors, director, and editor, to make sure we’re getting it all just the way they want it.

E: Over the years you must have accumulated a lot of tips on recording good sound. Can you give 5 examples?

B: 1) Always keep your ears open for sound problems. You have to do a sound check at the beginning of the day, but you also have to be prepared for something to crop up later, because you never know when, for instance, the gaffer will decide to turn on the refrigerator (yes, this happened to me recently).

2) Choose the right mic for each situation. It can make all the difference.

3) Have a great boom operator. Enough said.

4) Think like an editor. Try to keep the big picture in mind – what sound will be most important and how it will be used.

5) Know when to speak up. It’s very easy to get pushed around on set because truth is, you’re not the camera department. But if an adjustment has to be made to fix a noisy mic, or there’s a sound problem that can be found and solved, or if you just really didn’t get it the first time and need another take, you have to assert yourself.

Bonus #6) Don’t stress. It’s never worth it.

E: From your observations, what have you found common among good (a) directors, (b) producers, (c) actors, and (d) crew?

B: a) All directors come to set prepared and they know what they want. They may not have everything storyboarded or know all the dialogue, but they should go in with an idea of what every beat in a scene is about. And then they should be prepared to chuck it all out the window if necessary. That gives them the room to be creative and collaborate.

b) Producers: same thing about preparation. They have every contingency covered and they think really well on their feet – only about things like hiring the right people and making sure that they are in the right place at the right time.

c) Actors: also, they really should come prepared, knowing their part and being emotionally where they need to be for every scene. Many actors are just plain talented up the wazoo, and so they can come less prepared and pull it off with sheer power and charisma. But my favorites are the ones who have that and also have the craft to be incredible take after take after take, and hit their marks every time. David Strathairn, Michael Imperioli, Catherine Keener, Cynthia Nixon – those are some actors I’ve worked with who are like that.

d) Crew: again, they really know their jobs, and they know them well enough that they can work as a team pretty seamlessly, without ego.

E: What are some of the biggest misconceptions people have about television commercial shoots?

B: Probably that because we’re making a 30-second spot, that it all gets done really fast. Au contraire. Those 30 seconds are the most important 30 seconds in the lives of a whole gaggle of product marketing people and advertising agency personnel, and they are for darn sure going to make sure they’re perfect, and if you have to shoot it 500 different ways, so be it. But on the other hand, I have worked on many, many commercials that were funnier and more interesting than the features I’ve worked on.

E: What projects of your own have you been working or plan to work on?

B: Since last July, I’ve been co-directing/-producing a documentary called Flat Daddy. The film tells the story of a phenomenon begun in 2003 by a woman in North Dakota who came up with an ingenious way for her baby daughter to remember her dad when he was deployed to Iraq for a year: she took a photo of him from the waist up, blew it up to life-size, stuck it on poster-board, and called it “Flat Daddy.” Not only did the idea work, it took off, and now, thousands of Flat Daddies are living in homes across America, standing in for men and women fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. So we’ve been traveling around the country, following the stories of a handful of these military families and looking at how they’re using Flat Daddy to stay connected — and how that reflects what’s going on in their lives as the war continues.

E: How do you approach, as a writer and/or director, working on a documentary than a fiction film?

B: Documentaries and fiction films are very different animals, that’s beyond question, but they have more in common than you might think for a director. Again, the key to being a good director is to come in as prepared as you can be. So we do our homework: we pre-interview folks to get a sense of their story over the phone, and try to research a community or event as best we before we show up on somebody’s doorstep and turn on the camera. You also have to be aware that you’re not working with actors but with real people who are opening up their lives to you, so you need to be especially kind and considerate in helping them get comfortable with having you there. In a documentary, or course, you have to be more open to the possibility that anything can happen, and frequently does – which is also the beauty of it. (Although those kind of gorgeous accidents are also the stuff of some of the greatest feature moments) But at the same time, as with fiction, I always find myself looking for the shape of the story, the interesting people who are an integral part of it, what details stand out that make it unique — and what’s going to save my ass in the editing room!

E: You’ve also edited films. Do you agree that films are, to some degree, re-written in post? If yes, do you have instances that have proved the case? Has editing helped your writing and vice versa?

B: Editing is a crucial part of the process. Every director should do some editing so that they really understand what they’re going to need. I don’t have any films of my own that were rewritten in post, but certainly with docs, you are finding large parts of the story in the edit. But hopefully, what you end up with is something that fulfills exactly what your intention was all along.

I’m not sure that there’s that much of a connection between my editing and my writing, but I definitely always have a picture of what the final film’s going to look like and how it’s going to move on-screen. And I try to write in a way that makes you feel and see that when you read the script.

E: What’s your writing routine like? Do you have a method to how you approach writing a script? Do you outline? Do you follow certain ground rules?

B: I do outline. I think because screenwriting is so structured, it’s pretty necessary. And I do tend to follow a basic three-act structure, without being slavish to it, or to genre. Again, you go in as prepared as possible, then you can deviate from the plan. But in general, most audience members want to have characters who develop and change and a story that flows from those character arcs. I also try to flesh out the world and particularly the characters as much as I can in advance. This often means research – either visiting or reading about the milieu you’re trying to evoke – and really trying to spend some time in the head of each character.

E: What are the best 3 pieces of advice you’ve gotten about writing/filmmaking? What would you add to that when you advise others?

B: 1) Know what you want. Know the root of your idea and what excites you about it, and try to remain true to that. And my addition to that would be to know how far you can give on it (because you probably will have to give, either because of someone else’s ego or money or bad weather or just plain bad luck) without losing sight of what the work means to you.

2) Again, preparation. Do your homework. Then do it again.

3) Enjoy it. Sometimes it’s a grind and it’s hard to remember we’re doing this because we love it. We’re making movies! And I’d add to that: continue to do your own work and don’t get sidetracked by the “glamour.”

E: Why aren’t there more established women screenwriters and filmmakers in the industry? Where is the problem?

B: You know, it’s still very tough out there for women, and the reasons have more to do with the industry and what is perceived as being “marketable” than with overt prejudice. Although that still exists. Believe me, after nearly 15 years in the business, I still get meet men all the time who just automatically assume that because I’m a short blonde female that I don’t know how to do my job – or any job, other than arm candy. But worse, because the film business is, above all, a business, it’s about minimizing risk. So the powers that greenlight often go with a tried-and-true formula, or at least something that makes them comfortable. And who are they? Well, by and large they’re men. This is why Will Ferrell, God bless him, can continue to make the same movie over and over again with alternate big hair while a lot of us get told that comedies with female main characters don’t sell. Of course, as an audience, we’re culpable too: we’re conditioned to want movies with archetypal male characters who go on to save the day, no matter what stupid shit happens along the way. And as long as that’s what we pay for, it’s what we’re going to get. But I do think things are changing. There are a lot of talented women writers and directors out there creating interesting and complex stories and characters and an audience of grown-ups that I think is hungry for them – and a whole host of fantastic actresses ready and waiting for those parts.

E: What have you sacrificed to get to where you are today? What makes it all worth while?

B: Sure, I’ve sacrificed a few things. My knees. The chance to pay off my student loans before I turn 40. Billable hours (remember, I coulda gone to law school!). But when you’re flying off to Vegas to work on a project you’re excited about, life seems pretty good. Although it would seem a lot better if we knew we had money for post…

Betsy Nagler is a Brooklyn-based filmmaker, writer and location sound lackey. Her directing credits include short fiction films and industrials; ‘do, a documentary on how people feel about their hair which was awarded completion funding from the New York State Council on the Arts [watch trailer]; video letter segments for the popular Nickelodeon television show Blue’s Clues; and her current documentary work-in-progress, Flat Daddy. She continues to write short stories, screenplays about subjects such as reality television and suburban crime, and essays about her experiences doing location sound for feature films, episodic television, and Verizon commercials with the guy who says, “Can you hear me now?” She can be contacted at bnagler@dofilms.com.

I’ve had the good fortune of interviewing Dr. Linda Seger back in 2006. Dr. Seger’s latest book, barely 2 weeks old, is called ‘And The Best Screenplay Goes To…‘ Subtitled, “Learning from the Winners: Sideways Shakespeare in Love, and Crash” it is a dissection by Dr. Seger of the three Oscar winning scripts followed by interviews with the Screenwriters as well as, in the case of Sideways, the novelist Rex Pickett.

One would find it almost impossible go any deeper than where this book has in terms of understanding what good scripts are made of. Each script, and the resulting film, is distinctive in its style and substance. Each represents a very different side of society, one even reflects on today’s film industry by telling the story of Shakespeare. Dr. Seger adds to that her observations how and why these films tick the way they have been. There is a story beats section where each script is broken down into segments explaining changes in the story’s narrative. Add to that interviews with the authors and you have a book filled with examples of creativity at work.

Buy book at Amazon: And The Best Screenplay Goes To…

As per release of this book, Dr. Seger kindly agreed to do another interview with me. I thank her.

Emon: I noticed in your new book there are two writers on each of the three scripts. Over the years, what have you noticed are the common characteristics all successful writing duos have?

Linda Seger: In AND THE BEST SCREENPLAY GOES TO, you’ll notice that two of the scripts have writing teams where one writer is also the director – Sideways with Jim Taylor and Alexander Payne writing together, and Alexander directing, and Crash, with Paul Haggis and Bobby Moresco writing together, and Paul directing. In Shakespeare in Love, Marc Norman wrote the first draft and Tom Stoppard did the rewrites, which is also very usual in Hollywood where another writer rewrites.

When I came up with the idea for this book, I wanted to interview the writer(s) and director besides analyzing the scripts. The few individual writers that I contacted about possibly using their script said “no”. They weren’t interested in doing an interview. And, you’ll notice, that many Academy Award winning scripts have two writers. I considered changing the rules of this book, and eliminating the interviews, but the publishers really wanted the interviews (which I did also), so we decided that I would only use scripts where the writers agreed to be interviewed. It just happened that the two scripts had writer-directors. The first script I chose was Shakespeare in Love, and I was able to interview John Madden when I was in London. Once I realized how much the director interview added to the book, I decided to make that a requirement for choosing the scripts – that the director was also willing to be interviewed. This worked out well since the other two scripts I chose had writer-directors.

In terms of writing duos, usually they work well because each brings some different strengths to the process, and because the writers are good sounding boards for each other. In terms of how they work together, it really does vary. Years ago, I interviewed Lowell Ganz and Bubbaloo Mandell for my book From Script to Screen, (the writers of Splash, City Slickers, etc.) and they write in the same room. I noticed with the writing duos of Taylor and Payne, they tend to write in the same room. Haggis and Moresco separate at times. So, the method the duos use varies according to the people. I’m not sure that there are common characteristics, except that the writers have specific writing times, and figure out what works for them.

E: Novelist Rex Pickett and both screenwriters Alexander Payne and Jim Taylor have expressed their disdain for planning out plot or outline. Do you feel the organic process of letting characters lead the way makes for better original stories? How much of that freedom can a writer allow herself when she is adapting a well-known work vs. an unknown?

LS: It was interesting to me that Rex, Alexander and Jim do not use outlines. Yet, in an interview I did with Ron Bass some years ago for Creating Unforgettable Characters, (Ron won the Academy Award for Rainman, along with Barry Morrow), he says he always outlines and then when he makes changes, goes back and outlines further. I think sometimes not outlining can lead to chaos, unless it really works for the writer. For other writers, outlining makes their work too rigid. I think that great writers figure out what works for them, often by trial and error, and then use that method. Sometimes a writer has to go back and forth with this process. If they have lost their way, they might need the map of an outline. If they feel their work is getting too rigid, they might need to be freer and not worry about the outline. The only rule is, “there are no rules!” Writers simply have to learn how their own individual creative process works.

E: There seems to be, still, a lack of women and minority writers, with couple of exceptions, gaining prominence in the industry. What has not changed? Why?

LS: Yes, absolutely. If you look at the Academy Award winners you find very few women. Since I wanted to do recent films (Shakespeare in Love was in the late 1990’s, but every other film was more recent) and only Academy Award winners for Best Screenplay, that truly limited me. There weren’t any women in that group. I considered going back to Thelma and Louise (which had already been written about), but the writer had turned me down for an interview for When Women Call the Shots so there was no point in revisiting that, and I felt it was better to stay with newer films. So, there were no women that I could have interviewed. It is very unfortunate that little has changed with women writers or directors or producers in the last 30 years. Why? In spite of more women in development, there are not more women being hired. Amy Pascal, the head of Columbia Studios, has been an exception. Hollywood says they are liberal, but only liberal when it comes to subject matter, not liberal when it comes to employment practices (on the whole.) This is really a lack of consciousness. I once asked a well-known producer who was ready to shoot a movie and in the process of choosing a director, if he had any women on his short list. He stopped for a moment, and realized he didn’t. This was a man known for being open to women, but he hadn’t thought of it. And that’s the difficulty. Few think this way. And for many women who have had some success (Barbra Streisand, Jodie Foster, Kasi Lemmons, etc.) it is very very difficult. I think people get burned out, and just decide that it’s much, much too hard.

I once asked the Writers Guild and Directors Guild if I could help - i.e., perhaps doing a seminar (for free!) about changing the consciousness. I even suggested it for the day they would put aside, occasionally, for diversity issues. But they said “no”, even though I had done many successful seminars (for pay) for them over the years. They’re willing to do Diversity Days, but not to really change anything. I found that unfortunate.

E: While working on non-screenwriting projects, which you a do a lot, have you come across 3 lessons that makes a lot of sense when applied to screenwriting?

LS: My non-screenwriting projects are usually the theology/spirituality books and speeches, and my horse-back riding. It’s good to be a dimensional person! What have I learned?

First, everything takes lots and lots of time. Be patient. I just sold my 11th book, a theology/spirituality book on success and spirituality. I’ve been trying to sell this proposal for 6 years – and finally an English publisher bought the proposal. Same with horses. I’ve been working on a difficult maneuver called a sliding stop for 2 ½ years, and now sometimes get a 3-5 foot one, and once got a 9 foot one. The good riders do 10-20 feet. So, patience.

Secondly, have a spiritual life of some sort, because in all our work, we need it. Find a way to be clear about what things are ultimate, and what things are not. Don’t take everything too seriously, don’t whine, and get your priorities straight.

Thirdly, Be Prepared! The Old Girl Scout motto – that means working hard at what you want to achieve, and doing the preparation, knowing that even when you do all the preparation (going to seminars, reading books, having a writing discipline, meeting people, and always learning!) that doesn’t guarantee success. That’s why you need #1 and #2.

E: You’d given some useful tips on writing in our last interview. Would you mind sharing 5 more tips on : writing scene description, editing and revising drafts, story structure, working with a director, and - the industry.

LS: Writing Scene Description – You want your description to be spare, but unique and specific. Be careful of vague descriptions that tell us little – i.e.,”a western living room”. Instead, you might mention the warmth of the logs. The leather mission chairs. A fire is burning in the stone fireplace. That should do it! Your description is meant to help the director visualize the film, and of course to also help the scene designer, set decorator, etc. A good idea is to read lots of scripts and see how the best writers do this.

Editing and Revising Drafts – Writing is a process and you will write and rewrite. Know what you are going for in each draft. The early drafts will help you find your story. Another will help you check on your structure, and make sure it’s working. Another will help you deepen the characters. You might do another one to bring out more images to make the script more cinematic. Another might help you explore your theme. When you get your script as good as you can get it, then have readers read it. It’s a good idea to be part of a writer’s support group, provided it’s a constructive, not destructive group. Or, you might have several people who read your script and give you feed-back. Then, you might also work with a professional script consultant who will help you solve the problems that are still there, check all the many elements that need to be integrated, and help you add some other detailing.

Story Structure – Learn the 3-Act structure well. Later, you can work with non-traditional structures (such as in Crash) but don’t start there.

Working with a Director – Well, in most cases, you won’t be working with a director. You will release the script to the director and producer, and will then have very little to do with it. But if it turns out they want you on the set to do rewrites, listen carefully to any problems the director is having, and be there to help the director, and actors, resolve them. Try to serve the production and the director, rather than asking them, at that point, to serve your script. If you did a good job on the script before selling it, they won’t be able to destroy it too much, since it will be solid and elements will connect with other elements. And, you can then be the problem-solver if there are some things that need to be changed. In my book, And the Best Screenplay Goes to… read how well Tom Stoppard and John Madden worked together for Shakespeare in Love. And notice the first writer, Marc Norman, had virtually nothing to do with the director.

The industry – Try to be cooperative and to be a team player. Know what battles you really need to fight, and don’t fight any you don’t need to fight. That means that if they want you to change the chrome to touches of silver in your script, go ahead, unless everything in your script absolutely depends on chrome. If so, explain to the people you’re working with why you used chrome, and discuss. Don’t be difficult! When I write a book, I do everything that my editor asks me to do, unless it absolutely will change a meaning or add unclarity. Then, I let them know why I didn’t want to change it. Since I do about 95% of what they want, and try to be co-operative about everything, they don’t fight over that last 5%.

E. How have you changed as a person while you were involved in writing this book? I mean, has writing this book taken you to certain paths you wouldn’t have otherwise ventured into?

LS: Working with these scripts caused me to think more deeply about the elements I work with every day in my consulting work, and apply them in new ways. Everything we learn from watching films, reading and writing scripts, is useable, and we want to have broad experiences. So the broad experiences of these three scripts certainly gave me new tools – such as structuring multiple ensemble scripts like Crash, or thinking of ways to make a period piece contemporary such as with Shakespeare in Love, and finding ways to create character interest in a simple story such as Sideways.

And I certainly had some new experiences writing this book. I had a wonderful time doing the Sideways Tour in the Santa Ynez Valley with my friend, author Mara Purl. It was a thrill to spend 2 hours with Marc Norman, in his office in L.A., and John Madden, in his home in London, talking about their work and meeting with Rex Pickett, the novelist of Sideways. (The other interviews were done over the phone.) I began writing the book when teaching in Rome, and started with Shakespeare in Love, writing in the courtyard of my hotel, and feeling that special thrill that always comes when starting a new book.

I don’t know if I changed as a person, since the book was an extension of the work I do every day as a script consultant. But I certainly have more tools to use as a result of delving so deeply into these three scripts.

E: Name three fiction or non-fiction books you’ve read since our last interview and would highly recommend screenwriters read.

LS: Once writers have a good start on learning the basics of screenwriting, it’s good to move into learning more about other related areas. I’d recommend books by mythologist Pamela Jaye Smith – her book Inner Drives and also her next book which will be published this spring called The Power of the Dark Side – both will be helpful for work with character.

I may have recommended Anne La Mott’s book Bird by Bird in our last interview. It’s one of the best non-fiction books I’ve ever read, and has been a real model for me, as a non-fiction writer, to keep improving my ability as a writer.

Judith Searle has a fascinating book called The Literary Enneagrams which is great for character work, since she applies the enneagram theory to literary and film characters.

I’m going to add several other books which I believe are now out of print (maybe not), but if you can ever get these books, they were incredibly influential in my growth as a creative person. One is by Ben Shahn called The Shape of Content. Another is by Robert McKim called Experiences in Visual Thinking. And another is Creativity: Flow and the Psychology of Discovery and Invention by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. (He has other books published, but this is the one I know.)

And if they can get a hold of my out-of-print book, Web-Thinking: Connecting not Competing for Success, it will change their lives. (I have a few copies left.)

For all things Dr. Linda Seger, visit her site.

Related: Interview with Linda Seger - 1 (2006)

Had a chance to interview a few well-known folks over the years. There are some very good tips on writing here. If I can locate the older ones, I’ll post them up. Let me know what you think.